A message from Bruce Richardson on uk.comp.os.linux, generated this thread on mulinux mailing-list ================================================================== From: Bruce Richardson Subject: [itsbruce@netscape.net: Small Linux (was Re: Linux on 286)] Subject: Small Linux (was Re: Linux on 286) From: Bruce Richardson Date: 1999/11/22 Newsgroups: uk.comp.os.linux Silvery wrote: > Anyhoo, this is way OT, so I'll shut up now. Well, apart to ask if anyone > knows of a distro that can set up modems and net cards easily, provide a > GUI, _and_ fit (including swap) on a 200meg (about 177 fomatted) drive? Hi mate, If you have a network card handy (and another machine with cd-rom at the other end) or can fit a CD-Rom, most can be cut down to squeeze in. If you don't, then Debian is the only respectable distro I know that does a floppy-install. I spent the weekend shoe-horning Linux into a Toshiba 1910 (486/33, 4mb ram, 200mb HD). Not having a pcmcia network card handy, (or a copy of Debian) I downloaded muLinux - http://sunsite.auc.dk/mulinux/ - and used that. muLinux is actually one of those Linux on a floppy jobs (with 3 extra "tools" floppies with extra tools, GCC and X11 on them). By default it expects to run off the floppy (well, off a ramdisk actually) using a loop file on a DOS Hard disk for swap but I repartitioned and reformatted the hard disk as EXT2, transferred the contents of the floppies, did a little editing of inittab etc, ran lilo and that was it. Because the system is designed to run from a 2mb ramdisk, it finds the 200 mb disk space (minus the 16mb swap) very roomy indeed and it's pretty much a full single-workstation Linux (if libc5 based) - what isn't there I can add with GCC. The only niggle is that the guy who put it together is Italian and the system messages are in slightly fractured English ("The user wants the file X" means "File X is missing") so it's all a bit "Linux as she is spoke". I'd recommend it as a way of learning more about the basics of how a Linux system fits together - I thought I knew plenty about inittab and runlevels but writing my own init-scripts taught me a lot. muLinux isn't the only small Linux out there, you can find a pretty comprehensive list at http://www.toms.net/rb/ (worth checking out just for tomsrtbt), several of which can be converted into small HD installations (at least one is based on Debian 2.1). HTH -- Bruce (end of original message) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Karl-Heinz Zimmer Subject: Re: [itsbruce@netscape.net: Small Linux To: mulinux@sunsite.auc.dk Ciao Michele! > Hey Karl-Heinz (Zimmer, of course) read below what Bruce > told about your friend Michele on uk.comp.os.linux! > Please, defend me: I can't, because in this case my > *fractured* english will be confirmed :-) > Fractured: what beatiful word, that. I just posted a little reply to the newsgroup but I had to do it via deja.com because we don't mirror the uk.. groups here and I did not want to access another news server. I wonder when the mail will arrive in the group - hopefully not too late... Cordiali saluti, Karl-Heinz ---> ---> ---> this is what I wrote, hope it's OK!? In article <38397BA7.3F153FBD@netscape.net>, Bruce Richardson wrote: >I downloaded muLinux > http://sunsite.auc.dk/mulinux/ > and used that. > muLinux is actually one of those Linux on a > floppy jobs (with 3 extra "tools" floppies > with extra tools, GCC and X11 on them). =20 Now there are even four addons as Tom Poindexter has been so kind to provide the muLinux users with Tcl-To-Go, a very fine TCL/TK addon disk. :-) =20 > The only niggle is that the guy who put > it together is Italian and the system messages are in slightly fractured > English =20 Dear Bruce, =20 I did not see your mail on the muLinux user's mailing list, might it be that you just forgot to offer your help in adjusting the english phrases? =20 I am sure you aren't just kidding here so instead of complaining in the uk.. usenet it would be extremely nice to write down a short list of words/sentences not being optimal and send this list to Michele Andreoli, will you? =20 (just my 0.2 euro) =20 Karl-Heinz From: Kochenburger Andreas To: mulinux@sunsite.auc.dk Subject: AW: [itsbruce@netscape.net: Small Linux (was Re: Linux on 286)] Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 12:44:35 +0100 With all due respect, Bruce said a lot of good things about mulinux. And I would prefer a better English, too. With Latin and Esperanto = having disappeared, English is the "lingua franca" nowadays, whether we like American culture or not. Michele, please don't go into a defense position but take it as a = feedback from an else satisfied user, asking for improvement. Perhaps someone, who is "native English speaker" (I am not), could = volunteer to assist in making messages and other text precise and clear? I know from our international business how important it is to provide a = good user interface _WITH_ attractiveness, sometimes psychological. And we want mulinux not just to _BE_ but to _INTERACT_ in a professional not hobbyistic way, don't we? Andreas From: Kochenburger Andreas To: mulinux@sunsite.auc.dk Subject: AW: AW: [itsbruce@netscape.net: Small Linux I am not Michele but I did understand Bruce's posting not the way you do: he is _not_ asking for improvement. He just complains about the bad english but doesn't tell his opinion to Michele (but to the uk.. newsgroup) nor does he offer his help (being a native-speaker). .... Please calm down. Even if Bruce was brute (that one rhymes ;-) ) it does not make oneself a fool to accept that even fools can say true things now and then. And a feedback is a feedback, that's all, no matter if it is wrapped beautifully or tastelessly. (Perhaps Bruce's girlfriend just ran away when he made his posting; but that does not make Bruce necessarily a bad guy and his feedback without value). Andreas From: "Rik Hughes" To: Subject: Re: [itsbruce@netscape.net: Small Linux (was Re: Linux on 286)] ----- Original Message ----- From: Kochenburger Andreas To: Sent: Friday, November 26, 1999 11:44 AM Subject: AW: [itsbruce@netscape.net: Small Linux (was Re: Linux on 286)] > With all due respect, Bruce said a lot of good things about mulinux. > And I would prefer a better English, too. With Latin and Esperanto having > disappeared, English is the "lingua franca" nowadays, whether we like > American culture or not. Since when did English come from America! As a colonnial Englishman I have to object, but more importantly as a Welshman, I have to object to the 'American Culture' only speaking English, like the Welsh only speak Welsh ;-(. > Michele, please don't go into a defense position but take it as a feedback > from an else satisfied user, asking for improvement. > > Perhaps someone, who is "native English speaker" (I am not), could volunteer > to assist in making messages and other text precise and clear? Any problems send them to me, I will do the utmost to help. Rik rik@breathemail.net http://welcome.to/bitsnpcs From: Massimo Pilolli X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i686) To: mulinux@sunsite.auc.dk Subject: Re: [itsbruce@netscape.net: Small Linux (was Re: Linux on 286)] Ehi, guys! Why are you so excited? I don't think Bruce was really so unkind. Yes, he could have been very kind and offer his help, but we cannot kill him for not having done this. Anyway, he said many positive things about muLinux, and I suggest to positively consider even the (few) negative ones as a very useful feedback. Let's go on with Rik's proposal. Ciao, Max From: winsor Subject: Re: AW: [itsbruce@netscape.net: Small Linux (was Re: Linux on 286)] References: <8F58BF719CD3D01192D8006097297706013103C8@kher087a.khe.siemens.de> I'm sorry But I wouldn't change the messages and MOTD "one iota". This gives character and personality to MuLinux and to an extant, a degree of creativity and humor not usually associated with system programming. In many senses when one fires up MuLinux that person KNOWS of the country of origin.....and this is good...... And it certainly beats another old "mini-linux" that came configured for a portuguese keymap and help docs that said "buy a book on Linux"....that was fun to learn on*LOL* Just my ramblings from an idyll mynd, signed winsor From: "Brett G. Castleberry" To: Subject: Re: AW: [itsbruce@netscape.net: Small Linux (was Re: Linux on 286)] Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 21:59:57 -0500 Lord, the things that go on while I am in bed! I have to agree with Winsor. Michele's charming personality is part of what makes muLinux fun to watch and to use. I would be sorry if his language were to be made plain by some corporate Procrustes with an eye to an Initial Public Offering. I have never failed to understand any message in muLinux, so long as the topic fell within my admittedly limited hobbyist's understanding, (though I wish I had studied harder in Latin). Yes, I have a full Red Hat on the other half of my hard disk. Why, then, do I neglect it in favor of muLinux? MuLinux is attracting some very learned attention, and is being adapted to very sophisticated tasks. I hope that it will continue to be a diverting and enjoyable project for Michele. So I hope that those who desire some special function will take it upon themselves to work it out for the common good, and not put him under the lash. Brett G. Castleberry bcc9746@garnet.acns.fsu.edu Tallahassee, Florida From: Daniel Brooks To: "mulinux@sunsite.auc.dk" Subject: Re: Re: AW: [itsbruce@netscape.net: Small Linux At 11/26/99 12:13:00 PM, you wrote: >I cannot speak for 'us', I can only tell you my own private >point of view: I like muLinux and I have no problem with it >containing several english spelling errors. Actually, I like the "fractured" English. It is one of the many things that give muLinux it's charm. Daniel Brooks From: "Alfie Costa" To: quisque@tin.it Subject: Cosmopolitan style versus Rustic style On 26 Nov 99, at 21:28, Michele Andreoli wrote: > On the other hand, I can't understand why anyone, mother tongue, > never offers itself for a right translation of muLinux messages, in the > way they may seems less rustic and more professional. > A sort of extreme discretion and/or prudence v. the author? Good Morning, Prudence is one reason, people worry that programming is difficult enough; besides, programmers can be surprisingly sensitive about their writing. Sort of like that Monty Python restaurant skit where a waiter, manager and cook all go insane after a customer requests a cleaner fork. Another reason, the main reason I think, is that your users may dread that the cure might be worse than the disease... Most user manuals are professionally written to make a program look better than it is. Often a program won't be as well written or edited as its manual -- which doesn't mention all the bugs, or conceals or distracts one's attention from them. The poor user is lulled into a sense of inflated confidence and false security, and later may grow disgusted when they find out how things are. MuLinux doesn't fool the user with a slick manual, so instead of being shocked at what doesn't work, the user is expecting trouble. This leads to the pleasant discovery that muLinux works better than one expects it to. A native speaker of a particular language isn't automatically a good writer. The present generation of american-style user manuals are grim and formal, full of jargon and pretension; such evils make your italian humor and straightforwardness that much more refreshing. Summing up, you're right when you say it can't hurt to fix a few misspellings or errors of wording, but please don't permit anyone to "correct" your style to the point of making it fashionably unreadable. Hope this helps... From: Massimo Pilolli To: mulinux@sunsite.auc.dk Subject: Re: Fractured english in muLinux Michele Andreoli wrote: [...] > A good compromise should be: please help me to correct what > is really dangerous, changing for example the info() functions in > the /setup/fun subtree and sending me the result. [...] This seems a good compromise. Yours fracturedly, From: jeremy@visi.com To: mulinux@sunsite.auc.dk Subject: Re: AW: [itsbruce@netscape.net: Small Linux (was Re: Linux on 286)] On Fri, Nov 26, 1999 at 07:30:14PM -0600, winsor wrote: > I'm sorry But I wouldn't change the messages and MOTD "one iota". > This gives character and personality to MuLinux and to an extant, a > degree of creativity and humor not usually associated with system > programming. I have to agree! When I first played with mulinux, I found the messages to be very enjoyable. It's easy enough to figure out what the messages mean--anyone with a passable grasp of english can make perfect sense of them. My good friend Jose and I spent about three hours playing with mulinux the first time we downloaded--grinning at the very nature of the distribution, and endlessly repeating "This rocks!" To see grep rewritten as a shell script...ah, what a joy. I believe we only spoke four different phrases for those whole three hours--simply repeating them over and over: "This rocks!" "This guy is a fucking maniac!" "How the hell do you rewrite in shell?" "No way!" *shrug* I like the way mulinux's messages are. Perhaps we could have an option on start up? Proper English/MuLinux English (P/M)? Just my $0.02 Jeremy From: Kochenburger Andreas To: mulinux@sunsite.auc.dk Subject: AW: Fractured english in muLinux Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:37:38 +0100 Importance: high ^^^^^^! -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: Michele Andreoli [mailto:quisque@tin.it] Gesendet am: Samstag, 27. November 1999 16:51 An: mulinux@sunsite.auc.dk Betreff: Fractured english in muLinux Summarizing arguments, it seems the "List part duo divisa est", and many told me (also privately) that they like to mantain rustic english in muLinux, mainly for affective raisons. ----- Sure, fun and affection is very OK, and necessary for a good life. But perhaps the mulinux "community" could be bigger. When I remember, my first spontaneous impression with mulinux was a mixture of curiosity and skepticism towards its reliability, inspired by queer dialogs and messages in the installation scripts. It is natural to suspect that somebody who neglects the user interface might also be sloppy within the software. Now I know better, but perhaps others may have shied away. Perhaps just the stable mulinux releases could be "filtered" (input: work language; output: English as should be) by someone. Once done, "filtering" would be just the deltas thereafter, i.e. new or modified scripts and progs (if any). Andreas From: jeremy@visi.com To: mulinux@sunsite.auc.dk Subject: Re: Fractured english in muLinux On Mon, Nov 29, 1999 at 05:37:38PM +0100, Kochenburger Andreas wrote: > It is natural to suspect that somebody who neglects the user > interface might also be sloppy within the software. Oddly enough, I have often found the opposite. The more polished the user-interface, the more questionable the stability of the software (Windows NT, Netscape, MS Office, et al. as opposed to: Unix, MVS, et al). As always, your mileage might vary ;) > Perhaps just the stable mulinux releases could be "filtered" > (input: work language; output: English as should be) by someone. > Once done, "filtering" would be just the deltas thereafter, > i.e. new or modified scripts and progs (if any). If we are going to lean to this, I think we should keep the old messages, and have a prompt at the beginning--how much more space can the original text messages take? Is it enough to make this sort of thing disadvantageous? Jeremy --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mulinux-unsubscribe@sunsite.auc.dk For additional commands, e-mail: mulinux-help@sunsite.auc.dk