Re: [oc] FPGA with free tools?

[antti@case2000.com]

obtaining JBits requires Xilinx approval, well manageable ;)

on xilinx web there is freele downloadable XERC6K a grandad from JBits
well only useable for non existing 6200 FPGA

trianus/hades/lola is something, but unfortunatly the sources are
not available and the java binaries are fading away from the public
I am still considering writing a big PLEA to get the sources of 
trianus/lola/hades - actually some distributions of it did contain
software written by me (without my approval)
http://www.cs.inf.ethz.ch/projects/lola/trianus/
if those sources are obtainable they should be at least studied :)
once being desperado started to disasm those java classes

hm... maybe somebody has trianus/hades sources or knows someone
in Zyrich to ask for them ?
--
Atmel does provide full fpga/fpslic bitstream description under NDA
I started to write Atmel-Jbits but dropped the project.
--
generically what would be real nice is a simple DIY-Editor
just like old Xilinx XACT 3.20 - you have a graphical view and you can 
enter LUT contents and switch on pass gates, etc...

would that simple tool exist, be free and support all technologies
it would be a real benefit well I see it that way.

it is not at possible to manage. as computers are way powerfull
today most contstraints on program useable ram are gone.

my idea (one of them) was following

set generators that take parameters and generate LARGE database
for each FPGA part, the database holds primitives like wires that
are visible in the graphic editor. the VIEW editor queries all visible
in current VIEW/zoom primitives and renders them - this may happen
on the server side by PHP/MySQL resulting in an SVG image.

editable areas are marked as such, and have a bitstream location(s)
bound to them.

this approuch is so generic that it covers all technologies. Ok, there
are some specifics, but the main engine is technology dependant.

when a new design is created a new-empty database is cloned
witht the primitives existing in selected target.

sure this approuch is a memory eater, but I would not care. even if
the design database would take 300MB still I would not care - disk
space doesnt cost any more. 

what I do care about is my time - sure most silicon vendors provide
free tools, they praize them as well, but if you want to make a simple
desing that is useable on multiply technologies, and more if you want
to provide possibility to change it by the end users you are stuck -
the FREETOOLS require so huge amount of time spent obtaining
setting up the licenses for the FREETOOLS that it is a nightmare.

there are so many licenses needed, you install one then you are
afraid do other stuff still works and recognize the licenses etc..
and then you get license checkout error from some FREETOOL 
and... start start troubleshooting the licenses (again). - spent
probably months with license setups. (who pays for that?)

antti
 
 
> Colin Marquardt <c.marquardt@a... > writes: 
> 
> > <http://neil.franklin.ch/Projects/VirtexTools/> looks 
> like a project 
> > in that direction. 
> 
> Interesting, thanks.  So looks like it will be a Spartan-II then. 
> 
> > The subthread starting with 
> > <6u4rbundwm.fsf@c... > is also interesting. 
> 
> Indeed, I'm enjoying the read.  Also left me with the nagging 
> feeling 
> that I'm not the first one to think in certain directions... 
> 
> > PS: Funny, I just saw you this weekend talking about DirectFB. 
> 
> Heh :). 
> 
> Andreas 
> 
> -- 
> "In my eyes it is never a crime to steal knowledge. It is a good 
> theft. The pirate of knowledge is a good pirate." 
>                                                        (Michel 
> Serres) 
> 
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